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	<title>Comments on: IS THE INCOME A FAIR TAX?</title>
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		<title>By: 2iveiw</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1490</link>
		<dc:creator>2iveiw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1490</guid>
		<description>When all else fails use a religious fiction to give it legs. ;-)
There was no Empire tax in Rome 2010 years ago, the story is fiction.

Argument against a salestax

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory48.html

A barter system would ignite, and without a full accounting of everyone&#039;s worldly possessions there would be no way to account for consumption. 



Tax breaks, incentives and subsidies is where the real money is lost in our present system. That&#039;s the REAL underground economy. A guy selling his junk at a yard sale is hardly a tax cheat or a threat to fair tax practices. Taxes are paid on Profit, if someone sells and item for $5 that he paid $100 for 20 years ago, should he account for the loss? If normal depreciation is 2% a year and he looses 5% can he claim the unexpected loss in residual value on yard sale items?



Black markets, drug dealers, hookers, pimps and all the rest are criminals first, not tax evaders primarily. Under your criteria the homeless are tax evaders because they don&#039;t pay tax on the charity they may receive. If I buy you a beer and you don&#039;t claim that free income on your taxes, does that make you an evader? How about car-pooling or soccer moms driving kids for free, should those transportation dollars be added to the freeloading kids and their parents? 

The system of taxing needs to be simplified. Everyone should pay if they are able.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When all else fails use a religious fiction to give it legs. <img src='http://gulfportwatchdog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
There was no Empire tax in Rome 2010 years ago, the story is fiction.</p>
<p>Argument against a salestax</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory48.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory48.html</a></p>
<p>A barter system would ignite, and without a full accounting of everyone&#8217;s worldly possessions there would be no way to account for consumption. </p>
<p>Tax breaks, incentives and subsidies is where the real money is lost in our present system. That&#8217;s the REAL underground economy. A guy selling his junk at a yard sale is hardly a tax cheat or a threat to fair tax practices. Taxes are paid on Profit, if someone sells and item for $5 that he paid $100 for 20 years ago, should he account for the loss? If normal depreciation is 2% a year and he looses 5% can he claim the unexpected loss in residual value on yard sale items?</p>
<p>Black markets, drug dealers, hookers, pimps and all the rest are criminals first, not tax evaders primarily. Under your criteria the homeless are tax evaders because they don&#8217;t pay tax on the charity they may receive. If I buy you a beer and you don&#8217;t claim that free income on your taxes, does that make you an evader? How about car-pooling or soccer moms driving kids for free, should those transportation dollars be added to the freeloading kids and their parents? </p>
<p>The system of taxing needs to be simplified. Everyone should pay if they are able.</p>
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		<title>By: mtober</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>mtober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>Just to be clear... I was referring to these statements....The real flaw in our system is the citizens themselves. They revel in the leaders of “American Idol” while idly sitting by and let the “ruling class” steal everything they have in numerous ways to pass the money up to the “ruling class”. In its endless wars so that 50% of our national budget goes to “Defense” passed up to the weapons makers and “corrupt” foreign government leaders to keep our arms business going. 

The citizens are so trained to be greedy that they complain about gasoline costs while refusing to encourage “Alternative Energy”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be clear&#8230; I was referring to these statements&#8230;.The real flaw in our system is the citizens themselves. They revel in the leaders of “American Idol” while idly sitting by and let the “ruling class” steal everything they have in numerous ways to pass the money up to the “ruling class”. In its endless wars so that 50% of our national budget goes to “Defense” passed up to the weapons makers and “corrupt” foreign government leaders to keep our arms business going. </p>
<p>The citizens are so trained to be greedy that they complain about gasoline costs while refusing to encourage “Alternative Energy”</p>
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		<title>By: Dogfish</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>Dogfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>While the &quot;Fair Tax&quot; Plan would not probably affect the income received by Gulfport from the Federal Government, and I totally agree that the problem with governments is spending.  The above example of a council members desire to cover some costs of voting citizens is a prime example of &quot;catering to special interest&quot; is just an example of the way our whole political system works. 

Taxation is the bane of all societies, with even Joseph and Mary succumbing to the necessity.

But here in the good ol USA, tax avoidence is the national pastime. While some authorities state that the &quot;underground economy&quot; is over 50% of the &quot;economy&quot;. I feel that even if we consider fifty percent the correct nember, that is one half of all income being untaxed.  Putting a burden on those that do pay.

Lets look at some examples of those that are not taxed. Certainly the most prominent are those that are engaged in illegal activities.  Of course they do not report any income, they wouldn&#039;t want to call attention to their activities.  Drug dealers, street merchants, musicians, artists, all of who sell their wares or services in a mostly cash enviornment.

Do you think the garage sale vendors report that income? Legally they should, but of course lets get real.

A sales tax would catch a lot more revenue as everyone spends money on goods sooner or later.

This aspect would also not punish savers who put money in accounts only to see their interest dwindled by an income tax.

Why won&#039;t the government change it. Special interests, offshore tax avoiders, multinational corporations all have an interest in not changing the system.

Having just visited the DC capital area, it is plain to see that the people of governement are enjoying those benefits from our present system.  They don&#039;t want to report their illegal contributions, which if caught by a sales tax would not escape taxation.

Numerous &quot;underground&quot; services are available in the Capital area and certainly those that proclaim to be our public servants are enjoying the fruits of those benefits.

They may be fooling a lot of the people, but they aren&#039;t fooling us all.  Of course as mtober relates, we are all guilty of avoiding taxes in some sort.

So the chance of &quot;change&quot; as our President promised, is slim, just as it is from him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the &#8220;Fair Tax&#8221; Plan would not probably affect the income received by Gulfport from the Federal Government, and I totally agree that the problem with governments is spending.  The above example of a council members desire to cover some costs of voting citizens is a prime example of &#8220;catering to special interest&#8221; is just an example of the way our whole political system works. </p>
<p>Taxation is the bane of all societies, with even Joseph and Mary succumbing to the necessity.</p>
<p>But here in the good ol USA, tax avoidence is the national pastime. While some authorities state that the &#8220;underground economy&#8221; is over 50% of the &#8220;economy&#8221;. I feel that even if we consider fifty percent the correct nember, that is one half of all income being untaxed.  Putting a burden on those that do pay.</p>
<p>Lets look at some examples of those that are not taxed. Certainly the most prominent are those that are engaged in illegal activities.  Of course they do not report any income, they wouldn&#8217;t want to call attention to their activities.  Drug dealers, street merchants, musicians, artists, all of who sell their wares or services in a mostly cash enviornment.</p>
<p>Do you think the garage sale vendors report that income? Legally they should, but of course lets get real.</p>
<p>A sales tax would catch a lot more revenue as everyone spends money on goods sooner or later.</p>
<p>This aspect would also not punish savers who put money in accounts only to see their interest dwindled by an income tax.</p>
<p>Why won&#8217;t the government change it. Special interests, offshore tax avoiders, multinational corporations all have an interest in not changing the system.</p>
<p>Having just visited the DC capital area, it is plain to see that the people of governement are enjoying those benefits from our present system.  They don&#8217;t want to report their illegal contributions, which if caught by a sales tax would not escape taxation.</p>
<p>Numerous &#8220;underground&#8221; services are available in the Capital area and certainly those that proclaim to be our public servants are enjoying the fruits of those benefits.</p>
<p>They may be fooling a lot of the people, but they aren&#8217;t fooling us all.  Of course as mtober relates, we are all guilty of avoiding taxes in some sort.</p>
<p>So the chance of &#8220;change&#8221; as our President promised, is slim, just as it is from him.</p>
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		<title>By: mtober</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1425</link>
		<dc:creator>mtober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1425</guid>
		<description>Dogfish ...Right on!! I am as guilty as others of some of what you describe. Good food for thought!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dogfish &#8230;Right on!! I am as guilty as others of some of what you describe. Good food for thought!!</p>
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		<title>By: 2iveiw</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1424</link>
		<dc:creator>2iveiw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1424</guid>
		<description>The tax system, as it is, was not established to serve the public, but to subsidize industry. Read Manifest Subsidy 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/


The Trillions poured into the Pentagon is redistributed to maintain the industrial base, and Flavor-of-the-Month Wars are used to justify the expenditure. Volunteers are praised as heros but those who avoid service have more socially redeeming qualities, afterall they didn&#039;t need the government to make them heros or give them meaning in their lives. They stay home to barrow and spend, feeding the system that takes a piece of the action no matter what they do. 

Politics is just the entertainment division of this money-laundering scheme. Politicians become the vehicle that drives the sheeple to the checkout counters, winning votes from the riders and the cashers alike. 

Housing is the industry of Gulfport, as Mrs. King has most recently stated, Pasadena Yacht and Country Club pays 60% of the taxes in this city. Add to that the taxes paid by Town Shores and you&#039;ll see why the Police Department hangs around Ward 1 when the action is in Ward 4.

Why are taxes so high? Well here&#039;s an example of our National Problem in a microcosm right here in Gulfport. 

Kipp&#039;s Colony suspects that they pay too much for flood insurance or are disqualified because of their low elevation, so they hired someone to examine the numbers at a cost of $20,000.00 dollars. The preliminary result appears to be in their favor and the Federal Government has been wrong using an old formula. The old flood plain is not assessed accurately according to the new algorithm.

Subsequently Kipp&#039;s Colony and PYCC is now reclassified as Higher Ground and can now acquire federal flood insurance or pay less for it. Because the result was favorable some of the Council members, wanting to gain popularity from this positive outcome, feel the City should reimburse Kipp&#039;s Colony for the $20,000.00 investment. Mrs. King&#039;s justification for this expenditure is that it is our responsibility, how she comes to that conclusion is a mystery yet to be determined, but it&#039;s a popular expenditure to those who are the keepers of the tax purse. Right or wrong Mrs. King wants to gain from this windfall. &lt;strong&gt;I wonder, would she still feel this way if the conclusion had gone the other way? &lt;/strong&gt;

Should the City subsidize all expenses that citizen accumulate when the decision is favorable? If that&#039;s the case then I&#039;m sure that Mrs. King will be more than Happy to reimburse Al &amp; Cindy Davis for their cost in correcting the Clam Bayou assessments and the citizens will understand, why? Because the precedence was established with Kipp&#039;s Colony.

The Council is spending money they don&#039;t have, in a deficit year, to buy votes from the major taxpayers in this bedroom community whose major industry is housing. Or did I miss something?

How would our cost change if we used the Fairtax Plan rather than the Income Plan. How would we be restricting the politicians from spending money they do not have? Moving the chairs around on the Titanic with not keep the boat afloat. Your mileage may vary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tax system, as it is, was not established to serve the public, but to subsidize industry. Read Manifest Subsidy </p>
<p><a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/" rel="nofollow">http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v21/ai_18008942/</a></p>
<p>The Trillions poured into the Pentagon is redistributed to maintain the industrial base, and Flavor-of-the-Month Wars are used to justify the expenditure. Volunteers are praised as heros but those who avoid service have more socially redeeming qualities, afterall they didn&#8217;t need the government to make them heros or give them meaning in their lives. They stay home to barrow and spend, feeding the system that takes a piece of the action no matter what they do. </p>
<p>Politics is just the entertainment division of this money-laundering scheme. Politicians become the vehicle that drives the sheeple to the checkout counters, winning votes from the riders and the cashers alike. </p>
<p>Housing is the industry of Gulfport, as Mrs. King has most recently stated, Pasadena Yacht and Country Club pays 60% of the taxes in this city. Add to that the taxes paid by Town Shores and you&#8217;ll see why the Police Department hangs around Ward 1 when the action is in Ward 4.</p>
<p>Why are taxes so high? Well here&#8217;s an example of our National Problem in a microcosm right here in Gulfport. </p>
<p>Kipp&#8217;s Colony suspects that they pay too much for flood insurance or are disqualified because of their low elevation, so they hired someone to examine the numbers at a cost of $20,000.00 dollars. The preliminary result appears to be in their favor and the Federal Government has been wrong using an old formula. The old flood plain is not assessed accurately according to the new algorithm.</p>
<p>Subsequently Kipp&#8217;s Colony and PYCC is now reclassified as Higher Ground and can now acquire federal flood insurance or pay less for it. Because the result was favorable some of the Council members, wanting to gain popularity from this positive outcome, feel the City should reimburse Kipp&#8217;s Colony for the $20,000.00 investment. Mrs. King&#8217;s justification for this expenditure is that it is our responsibility, how she comes to that conclusion is a mystery yet to be determined, but it&#8217;s a popular expenditure to those who are the keepers of the tax purse. Right or wrong Mrs. King wants to gain from this windfall. <strong>I wonder, would she still feel this way if the conclusion had gone the other way? </strong></p>
<p>Should the City subsidize all expenses that citizen accumulate when the decision is favorable? If that&#8217;s the case then I&#8217;m sure that Mrs. King will be more than Happy to reimburse Al &amp; Cindy Davis for their cost in correcting the Clam Bayou assessments and the citizens will understand, why? Because the precedence was established with Kipp&#8217;s Colony.</p>
<p>The Council is spending money they don&#8217;t have, in a deficit year, to buy votes from the major taxpayers in this bedroom community whose major industry is housing. Or did I miss something?</p>
<p>How would our cost change if we used the Fairtax Plan rather than the Income Plan. How would we be restricting the politicians from spending money they do not have? Moving the chairs around on the Titanic with not keep the boat afloat. Your mileage may vary.</p>
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		<title>By: DogFish</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1420</link>
		<dc:creator>DogFish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1420</guid>
		<description>The real flaw in our system is the citizens themselves.  They revel in the leaders of &quot;American Idol&quot; while idly sitting by and let the &quot;ruling class&quot; steal everything they have in numerous ways to pass the money up to the &quot;ruling class&quot;.  In its endless wars so that 50% of our national budget goes to &quot;Defense&quot; passed up to the weapons makers and &quot;corrupt&quot; foreign government leaders to keep our arms business going. 

The citizens are so trained to be greedy that they complain about gasoline costs while refusing to encourage &quot;Alternative Energy&quot;

Any body wonder why no one in this country promotes solar independence. Every one of our houses could be fitted with solar panels on the roof and supplying most of our daily energy needs.  But there’s no revenue in it for the power companies and the politicians.  Take a look at your power bill.  Here in Gulfport, at least, in addition to our energy and fuel charges, there are three taxes added on to the bill. A gross receipts tax (which up until this year was called sales tax, why the change in language?) which goes to the state government.  Then there is the Municipal Franchise fee and utility tax. All three of these charges are a percentage of your bill. So given that their revenue would decrease by encouraging conservation, in reality they have no interest in doing so. 

I could go on, but the problem in this country stems from the people themselves.  A basic spineless bunch that would rather sit at home and watch mindless television and drink beer and get up the next day and do it all over again.  Fight for their rights, not till their world is gone and when it is barely livable and the rich have barricaded themselves inside their mansions, will the peasants march outside with pitchforks and torches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real flaw in our system is the citizens themselves.  They revel in the leaders of &#8220;American Idol&#8221; while idly sitting by and let the &#8220;ruling class&#8221; steal everything they have in numerous ways to pass the money up to the &#8220;ruling class&#8221;.  In its endless wars so that 50% of our national budget goes to &#8220;Defense&#8221; passed up to the weapons makers and &#8220;corrupt&#8221; foreign government leaders to keep our arms business going. </p>
<p>The citizens are so trained to be greedy that they complain about gasoline costs while refusing to encourage &#8220;Alternative Energy&#8221;</p>
<p>Any body wonder why no one in this country promotes solar independence. Every one of our houses could be fitted with solar panels on the roof and supplying most of our daily energy needs.  But there’s no revenue in it for the power companies and the politicians.  Take a look at your power bill.  Here in Gulfport, at least, in addition to our energy and fuel charges, there are three taxes added on to the bill. A gross receipts tax (which up until this year was called sales tax, why the change in language?) which goes to the state government.  Then there is the Municipal Franchise fee and utility tax. All three of these charges are a percentage of your bill. So given that their revenue would decrease by encouraging conservation, in reality they have no interest in doing so. </p>
<p>I could go on, but the problem in this country stems from the people themselves.  A basic spineless bunch that would rather sit at home and watch mindless television and drink beer and get up the next day and do it all over again.  Fight for their rights, not till their world is gone and when it is barely livable and the rich have barricaded themselves inside their mansions, will the peasants march outside with pitchforks and torches.</p>
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		<title>By: Ibn Saleem</title>
		<link>http://gulfportwatchdog.com/2010/07/is-the-income-a-fair-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-1417</link>
		<dc:creator>Ibn Saleem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gulfportwatchdog.com/?p=534#comment-1417</guid>
		<description>While your argument is rational, it does not address the root issue of parasitic government abuse of the society it feeds upon.  Though your nation recently celebrated its day of independence from the tyranny of a king, many of your fellow citizens seem not to recognize the rise of an equivalent royalty in your elected and appointed officials.  Taxes seem less a means to provide necessary services than the diet of an ever increasing, insatiable, unaccountable and arrogant class of rulers.
The excesses and ineptitude of those who occupy positions of priviledge and power in American society are evident in the oil debacle which may well destroy the marine ecosystem of the Gulf of Mexico.  The same experts and officials who extract money from citizens presumably to exercise oversight of critical and risky industry also extract, or willingly accept, money from any entity which might be affected by that oversight.  
The problem appears to exist to some degree at every level of American government.  While Americans expect government and business in other nations to be inefficient and corrupt, there is a blindness which pervades when one&#039;s own society is assessed.
To be king, it is useful to have many powerless peasants and a group of loyalist sycophants.  Throughout history, in all societies, those in power, regardless of their original intent, begin to prey on the weak.  Willing sheep are best for a wolf and complacent and malleable peasants are best for a king.
Look at your local leaders, your state and federal agencies and elected officials at those levels and consider what sets them apart from you and your friends.  Do you believe they are gifted in some way?  Are you comfortable that their decisions dictate the limits of your individual choices and your quality of life?  Are they more capable than you to decide how your resources should be used?  
If they can&#039;t fix the small things you know to be broken or wrong, can you trust them to decide for you the direction in which your society will move?  Would you give your life for them or commit your child to a conflict in which your leaders will themselves will never suffer?
The fair tax is a concept which appeals, though the rub is that the money still goes to the hands of the same incompetents who squander what they now remove from your pocket.  Your rulers are not fair, efficient, particularly intelligent or transparent, nor do have have to be, and that is the real flaw in the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While your argument is rational, it does not address the root issue of parasitic government abuse of the society it feeds upon.  Though your nation recently celebrated its day of independence from the tyranny of a king, many of your fellow citizens seem not to recognize the rise of an equivalent royalty in your elected and appointed officials.  Taxes seem less a means to provide necessary services than the diet of an ever increasing, insatiable, unaccountable and arrogant class of rulers.<br />
The excesses and ineptitude of those who occupy positions of priviledge and power in American society are evident in the oil debacle which may well destroy the marine ecosystem of the Gulf of Mexico.  The same experts and officials who extract money from citizens presumably to exercise oversight of critical and risky industry also extract, or willingly accept, money from any entity which might be affected by that oversight.<br />
The problem appears to exist to some degree at every level of American government.  While Americans expect government and business in other nations to be inefficient and corrupt, there is a blindness which pervades when one&#8217;s own society is assessed.<br />
To be king, it is useful to have many powerless peasants and a group of loyalist sycophants.  Throughout history, in all societies, those in power, regardless of their original intent, begin to prey on the weak.  Willing sheep are best for a wolf and complacent and malleable peasants are best for a king.<br />
Look at your local leaders, your state and federal agencies and elected officials at those levels and consider what sets them apart from you and your friends.  Do you believe they are gifted in some way?  Are you comfortable that their decisions dictate the limits of your individual choices and your quality of life?  Are they more capable than you to decide how your resources should be used?<br />
If they can&#8217;t fix the small things you know to be broken or wrong, can you trust them to decide for you the direction in which your society will move?  Would you give your life for them or commit your child to a conflict in which your leaders will themselves will never suffer?<br />
The fair tax is a concept which appeals, though the rub is that the money still goes to the hands of the same incompetents who squander what they now remove from your pocket.  Your rulers are not fair, efficient, particularly intelligent or transparent, nor do have have to be, and that is the real flaw in the system.</p>
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